Tony's Chocolonely and Orvis CBOs: International Living, Remote Leadership, Small vs. Mega Brands, and Bold Career Moves

Visionaries Season 3 is here! First up is Sadira Furlow, Chief of Brand and Communications at Tony's Chocolonely, and Sheila Pollak, Chief Brand Experience Officer at Orvis. In this episode, they discuss:

• The hidden benefits of living and working internationally.
• Tips on keeping remote teams engaged and innovative.
• Pivotal moments that led to bold and necessary career moves.
• The power of wielding levity and humor as you lead.
• The similarities and differences in leading small vs. mega-brands.
• The fine line between having a brand purpose and saving the world?
• And so. much. more. 

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Transcript

Podcast Tony's Chocolonely & Orvis

[00:00:00] 

 Hello and welcome to Visionaries I'm your host [00:01:00] Lisa Hufford and I'm so excited to get our conversation started today with our amazing guests. Please welcome Sheila Pollack, Chief Brand Experience Officer at Orvis and Sadira Furlow, Chief of Brand and Communications at Tony's Chocolonely.

[00:01:18] Lisa Hufford: Very briefly, Sheila joined Orvis in 2022 as Chief Brand Experience Officer. She has over 25 years of marketing experience, which includes a very successful 16 year career at The Gap, where she held position athletta as a purpose driven high growth brand in her role as CMO. Most recently, Sheila was the SVP and CMO at Biosense, a top clean beauty brand.

Sheila is currently a strategic advisor to Alison Felix's Women's Empowerment and Shoe Brand, Seiche. And welcome Sudheera. From managing billion dollar brands to scaling a unicorn startup, Sadira is a [00:02:00] true brand and creative marketing genius with the awards to prove it. Forever fueled by curiosity, she's architected growth and generated smiles for over 20 different brands, delivering performance and purpose for Lays, Happy Money, and more.

And now she swapped this city that always, sleeps, for the one that always cycles to lead Tony's team of impact makers. A steward of stories, she captures and champions the magic of Tony's like no other, allowing the brand to reach its greatest potential and impact in cocoa. So let's get started with an amazing conversation with these two fantastic leaders.

Welcome to both of you.. So let's kick it off with Sadira. We're going to talk about something really unique that both of you share around your international experience.

So how has international living experience influenced your approach and leadership in brand marketing? Why don't you take that first Sadira? 

[00:02:58] Sadira Furlow: Yeah. Well, thank you so much. [00:03:00] Uh, Lisa and Marketers That Matter. So excited to be here. Actually coming to you live from Amsterdam, which is my new home about six months into my new home.

And gosh, I think moving internationally is something that I've always wanted to do and running a brand outside of the U. S. And building it and being a part of such a global culture is so very different than how I've spent the past 20 years of, um, my career. I would say it's been very humbling and what a joy each day is, and the, the curiosities and challenges, it brings everything from like navigating how to take the bus to the number of translations and languages you need to be able to communicate your brand purpose in all uniquely different than my U S experience. But again, such a joy to be a part of this purpose driven brand and enjoying my new home in [00:04:00] Amsterdam.

[00:04:01] Lisa Hufford: Awesome. Thanks for sharing that. And Sheila, share your experience growing up abroad, how that's led to your brand marketing influence. 

[00:04:09] Sheila Pollock: Sure. And same thing. So happy to be here. Thank you for having me. Um, yeah, I grew up in Germany for 12 years and then moved to the U S and my dad is Indian and my mom was German.

So grew up in a very international household. Um, and I've also, you know, spent some time on the gap and been in our public global marketing teams. So for me, when I think about, um, the international experience, I think there's three things that really I've learned from it. I would say one, Empathy. Um, I have a very high degree of empathy for, uh, different people and different cultures and different perspectives.

Um, it was a very hard transition to move in middle school to the U. S. And it was really hard for a couple of years. So, um, I learned a lot about having empathy for others and putting yourselves kind of in the shoes of other people that are having a hard time. So I would say from a customer's [00:05:00] perspective, I'm always thinking about it.

Um, how might different people kind of take this in and how do we need to think about diverse groups of people? Um, I would say the other one I think about is just the universal truths, um, that you see across all humans, regardless of culture, regardless of background. I think just really always boiling it down to what are those fundamental.

Desires the needs the wants, um, again, regardless of cultures or countries or backgrounds. I think there are things we all share. And so, as you think about a brand position or brand purpose, just really boiling down to what's going to speak to everybody. That's really emotional. Um, and then the last part I was thinking about was, um, honestly, how do you bring this was kind of virtual teams before it became.

Cool to be virtual, you know, we're working with all the global teams around the world. Um, we, we were always in a virtual environment. And so I learned a lot about how to empower those teams, bring them together, create connections, share things with each other. Um, so that was, I [00:06:00] think that was an early.

Early days experience and what now becomes um, so normal for all of us. 

[00:06:06] Lisa Hufford: That's fantastic. I really heard a lot around empathy for both of you. I think that just appreciation, empathy and the universal truth. I love that too. And, and you're right, the virtual before it was called to be virtual. Like when you're global, you, you, you have to figure out how to be virtual.

So. Yeah. Those are those are just great learnings for all of us. So let's transition to the next question right now. You know, everyone's it seems like the world is in transition and lots of people are in transitions with their own careers. And both of you have had incredible career. You still have your career still building.

But for both of you, you've worked at big brands, you've worked at smaller brands, you've worked at growth brands, purpose driven brands and. I'd love for you to share a little bit about the boldest move you made, and was there a pivotal moment when you knew you needed to make a [00:07:00] transition? And what was that?

So Sheila, let's start with you first. 

[00:07:04] Sheila Pollock: Sure. Um, let's see. I think the boldest move I could think of was really, I feel like I manifested my change to Athleta. Um, I was at Gap Brand at the time and I was really happy. It was a wonderful job. Again, global marketing role. Um, but when I met the then CMO of Athleta, I, there was just an immediate Yeah.

Yeah. almost like a heart connection and something that literally felt like I had met sort of my soulmate uh, from a work perspective. And um, just the, when she described the purpose and the vision of Athleta to me, um, just my personal passion for women's and girls empowerment just lit on fire. And so, um, I told her the very first time I met her, I said, I'm going to work for you.

And I know you're just moving into this role. I know I've just moved into mine, but I, I am going to work for you. I know I want to work for this brand. It just speaks to me. [00:08:00] And honestly, a year, year and a half later, she, she reached out and said, Hey, I think I've got a role for you. And so there was really, it was like a manifestation.

Like it was just, I had. Dreamed it. I wanted it and it, you know, went after it. So I'd say that. And then I spent, you know, eight years at Athleta, eight and a half years. So it was a very, very personal brand for me. And it was just, it was a bold move because it was so tied to my personal passion and what I believe in.

So. fervently. Um, and I think the legacy that I want to leave. So it just became an incredible journey to be a part of that, help grow the brand, take it to that next level. Um, and so for that, it just, it felt really bold for me because it was just so tied to the personal for me. 

[00:08:42] Lisa Hufford: That's awesome. Thanks, Sheila.

All right, Sudheera. 

[00:08:46] Sadira Furlow: Yeah. So there's really two bold moves for me that I've made and they both started with a no versus a yes. And Both my, um, past before joining Tony's, I moved from PepsiCo to [00:09:00] a financial tech startup. So it couldn't be more different than the beloved brands of PepsiCo moving into the world of personal lending.

Um, but one of the reasons I did that was I really wanted to hone my skills and becoming a more of a modern marketer. And right, we're reading the press, we're reading the trades, and we're learning about the importance of technology. And I just was not cutting it at. Doing the training around becoming more digitally savvy and reading on my own.

And so I really want it to immerse myself in a tech culture. I want it to be at a place where marketing is not at the center of all the glory. And actually it's quite hard, uh, when you're in tech and you have to build different types of relationships and learning a different go to market. Learning how you build brands differently.

So while it was incredibly scary, and it started with a no, because I wasn't sure if I was ready for such a big leap, the founder reached out to me, and after being open to a conversation and [00:10:00] then more conversations, It became one of the best moves that I could have made because what I learned in that two and a half years at happy money.

I could not have gained that same type of experience had I stayed. And so that, uh, you know, kind of reassured me and I took a sabbatical and then there was another opportunity that came about and it was with Tony's. And this amazing brand required to move to Amsterdam, very different sort of, uh, I'd say parameters around, um, what.

Success look like, and again, I wasn't sure if I was ready for it. So I said, no, super interesting, but I don't think it's for me. And they said, can we still share your profile with the CEO? And they did. And then I got a call from the CEO and again, being open to a conversation and just how the power of a note can take you places you've could have never imagined to boldest moves in your career.

So I'd tell you like, start with the no, but be open to a yes. [00:11:00] And just, there's so much ahead of you. 

[00:11:03] Lisa Hufford: Wow. You know, I think a lot of people here know and that's it. They move on. And so what I'm really taking away is that reminder that, you know, no, no, might mean no right now, but it doesn't always mean no.

And if it's something you're passionate about, and you both share such. Passion for this is what I'm hearing from both of you, like really putting yourselves out there and almost uncomfortable positions, right? Both of you kind of leaned into roles that you maybe you weren't 100 percent qualified for on paper, but there is something in both of you.

It seems that gave me the confidence to say, you know, I can figure it out and I, and I can, I can do it. Um, and I think that's just, that's so inspiring. And you both share purpose-driven brand, you know, focus. And I wanna talk about that for a minute, minute because that is so, I know that's so important to both of [00:12:00] you.

And so from your latest experiences, what are, what's a unique, a unique insight that you can share about what consumers. Truly seek and purpose driven brands. So Sadira, let's, let's start with you. Yeah. 

[00:12:15] Sadira Furlow: I think with purpose driven brands, they, they start with consumers are seeking the actual purpose. Like it's not enough for it to be clever positioning.

I think consumers we are past that. So they're looking for the actual tangible purpose and they're looking for the receipts. So there is, a greater accountability being placed on businesses and actually showing the impact that is coming about as a result of that purpose. Um, there is, uh, I think even just a different type of awareness that consumers have.

They are informed, they are knowledgeable, they are equipped, and they have questions, and they expect brands to show [00:13:00] up, to have answers, to speak up, to, to act on their behalf, particularly if they want to earn their purchase, if they want to earn sharing their content. There is much more of this shared accountability of if you want something from me, I expect you to live by that purpose that you keep talking to me about.

[00:13:22] Lisa Hufford: Yeah, that's, that's really powerful. Sheila, how about you? 

[00:13:27] Sheila Pollock: Yeah, I love everything you said, Sadira. I plus one on all of that. And then I would add just a couple things. I think they want to feel like they are part of something greater that is really aligned with their values. So, you know, we talk a lot about just the power of an authentic community.

Um, and to Sadira’s point, it's not something that it's not a marketing ploy. It's not something that you're, but how do you create a real community that people, uh, truly feel a part of and make it easy for them to participate? Um, whether it's in the community piece or [00:14:00] again, as a brand, how do you make some of the choices easy for them?

Um, whether it's the education around an issue or the. Financial contribution to an issue or frankly the time contribution. Um, at Orvis, we're, you know, we're talk a lot about and we're very dedicated to a natural conservation. And so we have a lot of amazing events, for example, and some of our top stores and top markets and.

It is incredible the amount of people that come out to join us to do local river cleanups or, um, you know, just help us with some of the conservation efforts locally. Um, and honestly, a lot of the feedback we get is that it's not about the money. It's the, their love, the time that they spend together in their community helping out.

And again, we're facilitating it and making it easy. Um, so I do think that's, that's really important as well. 

[00:14:49] Lisa Hufford: I love that how you both are so passionate about the purpose that you're representing the brand. And then that's extending and to really like, like, you just said, Sheila, make it easy [00:15:00] for the audience for your consumers to engage with the brand in a much larger way than just the product or the service you're selling.

It really is about that community and that experience through through both through both the brands that you're representing. That's. That's that's very I'd say it's very creative marketing. It's yeah, it seems like it's very, very current and to your point. So you're about modern marketing, right? Modern marketing and purpose driven brands.

Absolutely. Okay, so let's talk a little bit about advice. We're so lucky to have. Both of you is so many experiences. I know you could talk forever about advice, and I'm sure you get sought out all the time, probably as mentors from young marketing, aspiring marketing professionals that look at you and say, how did you do it?

You're at the peak. You're at the pinnacle. I want to be where you are. So I'd love to have you each share your best advice for those admire those aspiring marketing professionals. So Sheila, let's start with 

[00:15:56] Sheila Pollock: you. Sure. Gosh, I wish I'd thought [00:16:00] about some of these when I was younger. I thank you for asking the question.

I love this question. Um, I would say the number one thing advice for me to people, let your superpower shine. Do not worry so much about what you're not good at. I spent way too long in my career worrying about what I wasn't good at and constantly trying to make up for that. Um, We are all gifted and blessed with some superpowers.

And so if you lean into those and really let those shine, I promise you things will work out and you will be successful. So I would just say really get clear on what those are really let those shine. Um, the second one I would think about is how do you build the most inspiring group of incredible.

People around you that just shine a light on you that you shine a light back on them. Um, and that just give you so much energy. Um, and, you know, just fuel kind of the passion, the, um, like I said, the, the inspiration, the [00:17:00] energy, the creativity behind you. Um, and again, I think a lot of it is not just about a transactional network when you're looking for a job.

I think what's, what, this is very different. This is like building your amazing sort of. Super group, super, um, power group around you. Um, that again, just, just really is an amazing, uh, will lift you throughout your whole career. Um, and there's certainly tangible benefits like the networking and all that, but I think more importantly, it's just the, the emotional and kind of spiritual piece that comes with it.

Um, and then I'd say the third piece of advice is work for dream bosses, look for dream bosses versus the dream job. Um, The dream job can quickly fall apart if you don't have the right boss. And I would say, especially as you're learning and building your career, the best thing that happened to me was just having a series of the most incredible women that I worked for, um, and men both.

Um, but they're just, they're every one of them. I'm still really close to they've become dear friends. Um, I've learned so much for them professionally and personally. And [00:18:00] so honestly, I think that's the most important thing to look for is who do you work for? 

[00:18:05] Lisa Hufford: Great advice. All right, Sadira. 

[00:18:08] Sadira Furlow: Yeah. I want to build on what Sheila said.

I, I don't think that there's enough emphasis placed on building the community around you. We talk a lot about building like networking and sort of like transacting relationships. But I remember getting to a point, it was my first CMO role. And it was like, I made it to the table. I made it to the room. I did it.

And I looked around and I was like, now what? And I went to my I looked at my network. I looked at my personal board of directors and while I had done a good job, I hadn't done as well in like one a diverse board. So I had gotten to a place, but there was no one that I really had around me that could help me excel.

Now that I was in the room, and then there was also this idea around having people around [00:19:00] you that can hold you down as well as lift you up because you are pouring out so much and you need to have folks around you who are pouring into you so that you can continue to pour out into others. So just really a strong plus one on the importance of starting now to build and pour into those relationships so that.

As you have your ambition and you go into bigger rooms and bigger platforms, you've got a strong group of people around you because you're going to need them. I think my second piece of advice would be to fall in love with being a lifelong learner. and having a healthy dose of curiosity. I think you've heard from both Sheila and I.

We're curious people, and that curiosity has taken us into very different places. It has helped us to build skills around being empathetic. It has helped us to build humility, right? And stepping into new places and spaces. And not knowing all of the answers, but in stepping outside of our [00:20:00] comfort grown, that's really where you're like hitting the gas pedal on growing and you can only do that if you are curious and embrace continuing to learn, even when you know a lot, there's still more that you can learn, and being willing to be taught by those that look different than you, those that are more junior than you, those that you don't even know.

There's always something you can take with you that can help you grow and be better. 

[00:20:26] Lisa Hufford: Oh, wow. Um, I have like so many notes. I love that you're both talking about The superpowers really leaning into those and Sheila, just to reflect, you know, that's that's something I took me a long time to learn to. I think when you're when you're young and coming up, we tend to focus on all the things that.

You know, maybe we're not as good at and not to say we shouldn't grow right in other areas. However. I think for many of us, or at least I'll speak for myself, you get to a point in your career where you kind of overlook [00:21:00] the things that are so easy for you to do, which really are your superpowers, right?

So just, just to plug for that of usually the superpowers, the things that are obvious and effortless, and you're kind of like, really, this is my superpower. I, you know, whatever that is, that those are the things that are so natural. And that might feel like I kind of opposite of how it should feel right to lean in.

So I love that you're saying that. And once you really identify that and lean into that, you're right. That's how you can really stand out and create your career and your group. You both talked about community and. Uh, so important, whether that's within your brand, broader than your brand, you know, LinkedIn can help you obviously build your community throughout every career.

I'm, I'm guessing each of you probably have key people throughout all of your experiences and jobs you've had that you. It's like you continue to grow and amplify your network for all the different places you are in your career and the things you learn, um, and tap back into those people. Um, you never know, right?

Once you have these long careers, [00:22:00] I don't know about you, but sometimes I look back and I think, oh, I didn't, I didn't know how important those relationships would be at the beginning to later in life, right? It's, it's, it's a very, it's a very small world. The dream, oh, my God, the dream boss. I love that you guys talked about working for somebody that really empowers you and lifts you up and believes in you and that that's so important.

And, um, and and also. I think you talked a little bit about this idea of. Maybe being aware if there's if there's people or circumstances holding you down or holding you whether that's around you or within yourself and to recognize that you don't have to stay in that place that you can be brave, and you can get uncomfortable and make a move.

And sometimes if you're feeling stuck right that's that's a good opportunity to reflect on maybe it's time to make a move so. So much, so much wisdom in there. I love, I love all of it. And I'd love to actually move on and kind of build on this [00:23:00] conversation and advice around your team approach. So each of you are very strategic, important leaders.

You build many teams, big teams, small teams, global teams, local teams. Um, how, so I'd love for each of you to share some strategies or practices you found effective in maintaining your team. High morale and strong culture within your teams. So Sadira, let's start with you. 

[00:23:25] Sadira Furlow: For me, it starts with my energy.

Like I set the pace, I set the tone and I really try to come in with again, that, that humility in, um, the role that I play amongst the team. And that's like, whether it's a good day or a bad day or something in between recognizing the impact that my energy has. on the overall team and really trying to set that as a good example and provide inspiration, particularly when things are getting hard.

I think a lot of that comes from being a competitive [00:24:00] athlete, most of my career so a lot of my leadership style and building teams comes from that approach. I like to say, I'm a bit of a GM a bit of a coach as well as a player. I want to get out on the field with you and I'm right beside you doing those suicides running up and down the field so you're never going to be out on the field by yourself.

And if I'm going to challenge you, I'm going to be right beside you cheering you on through that. And as well as there's a job that I have to do as a GM. And how do I build the best performing team and that's performance to meet our objectives. But that's also how do I support that personal performance and helping and coaching and developing talent so that they can reach their greatest potential, which also at times means they may only be with me for a short season, but how can I, in the time that we're together, leave them better off?

In the time we had than if we didn't have that. 

[00:24:56] Lisa Hufford: I love that. I love that thinking about that energy for [00:25:00] yourself. Like starting with you first and recognizing how to emanate Sheila. How about you? I want to get on that field 

[00:25:06] Sheila Pollock: and do suicides. 

[00:25:07] Lisa Hufford: What's 

[00:25:07] Sheila Pollock: the DRF come on, girlfriend. Let's go. Um, yeah, no, God, it's such a good question, especially in a hybrid environment.

I think it's, it's certainly a bit more challenging right now. So. Couple things I think about one is, you know, definitely trying to spend time together as much as we can living the brand. So I would say, you know, outside of the day to day, just going out. And for us, obviously, we're a very outdoor, uh, driven brand, and we spent a lot of time fly fishing and going wing shooting.

But, um, you know, us all getting outside and, you know, In the river, literally together, um, there's nothing like that just to connect on our purpose, connect on the stuff that we'd love to do together. Um, it just creates such strong bonds and it just takes us out of the context of the day to day kind of stressors.

Um, and so that, that's a huge, so when we have the privilege of being together and [00:26:00] being able to create those experiences together as a team, um, but even simple things like grabbing dinner together or making lunch, like having a picnic together and lunch Um, just those conversations that happen and the human connection that happens is so, so important, especially these days, as we're spending a lot more time in hybrid environments, um, I would say celebrating the wins has been huge.

So, even in tough times, last year was very challenging. For our team. And so we spent a lot of time and I spent a lot of time talking about just the small wins the big wins. We got to celebrate all of them. Um, just the positive reinforcement, I think, goes a very long way. Um, and so to Sadira’s point, we do have to set the energy.

We've got to set the pace. Um, and so I think staying really positive and again, it's not being Pollyanna about it, but I think it's just making sure that we really are recognizing when we're making progress and having some great wins. And then the last one that we really try to practice on our team is just levity and humor.

Um, I, I [00:27:00] learned really early on from one of my first bosses at Ketchum. Um, he was so great at just making everything have a little bit of a humor, just make it fun. Um, what we do is really important, but it, it, there's no reason why you can't throw in a little levity and humor into meetings and into situations.

And it just, it goes a very long way and it's such a fun way. All of our team members kind of play a role in it. Um, but it honestly, it makes a difference for me to like, they know when I'm having a hard day and they come with a joker, it's a little bit of levity and it just changes everything. 

[00:27:32] Lisa Hufford: It's great.

I love that. Love all of your amazing advice. Okay. We're we're, I have one more question and then it looks like we've got some Q and a, we'll go to a question and Q and a, and then. We're going to end with each of you asking each other a question in the next 17 minutes or so. So my last question for you is, if you had to choose one word for 2024, what would it be and why?

So Sheila, let's start with you. [00:28:00] 

[00:28:01] Sheila Pollock: Yes, this is a, I love the one word for the year. I'm going to pick adventure. Um, I, you know, this year continues to be challenging for many different reasons. There's a lot of external factors going on. Um, and I, I do think when I think about the consumer right now as well, they're, they are looking for some escape, right?

They are, they are there. There's a reason why people are gravitating to experiences so much right now. Um, and so, you know, Adventure is very top of mind for me, both personally and professionally. Um, personally just to try to keep a balance and, and sort of a work life balance and some perspective on, on the job.

So I do try to get outside and create my own adventures regularly. Um, and I think from a professional perspective, just thinking about the consumer right now, we're leaning heavily into our adventure storytelling, the experience point of view, and then tying product back to that. But really trying to lead with what we believe is most aspirational for us, which is getting our [00:29:00] customers outside and actually living, um, the aspirational orvis life that we are purveying.

And so, um, the more romance we put around that, I just think that's, that's, it's a nice way to dream and sort of get away a little bit from the day-to-day. Um, and so that's really, that has been very top of mind for me. Adventure. Adventure. 

[00:29:18] Lisa Hufford: Great word. All right. Sadira, what's your word? 

[00:29:22] Sadira Furlow: So I'm going to take some liberties and hyphenate the word to make it into a word.

Uh, so my word for the year is out loud and that for me is a personal one, but as well as one here at Tony's and really it's about like saying it out loud, using your voice, showing up authentically, no more hiding behind the scenes or being quiet about it. It's living your truth. It is sharing That purpose being outspoken about it, even if it's unpopular, even if it's uncomfortable that the [00:30:00] world needs to hear your voice and it needs more people to be brave and to be bold and to challenge things and we can only drive that change when we do so out loud.

[00:30:10] Lisa Hufford: Wow. Okay. I'm inspired. Let's go. Okay. I'm going to invite Jenny Stark on the screen here who runs our MTM uh community and Invite her to share. I think we have time for one maybe two questions. So Jenny with what's a question for our panelists

[00:30:29] Jennie Stark: the questions are flooding in. So I'm going to go to one that came in earlier, which is what are the strongest differences slash similarities you've noticed since leading mega brands versus smaller purpose led brands? 

[00:30:44] Lisa Hufford: Adira, let's start with you.

[00:30:46] Sadira Furlow: Uh, there are big differences and I would say two things, that spending millions of dollars And spending a few dollars are equally hard, [00:31:00] but for different reasons, and it is a myth and delusional to think that if you just had millions of dollars, it will solve all of your problems. So that is one, it's still the same challenge, just in different ways.

And probably the most humbling one is when you are building a brand or at a company or you're scaling a company, I mean, you've got to get in there. Like I'm in Tableau pulling the reports. I'm sitting with the team. We're building processes and guidelines and oh, should the brand speak up about this.

There isn't a playbook that you can just pull off the shelf. So you really have to think, trust your instincts and have the experience to be able to jump in and be willing to do it because there's. Not 10 people or 10 teams that are going to be able to do it. It's you and the few people around the table with your hustle and grit and passion that are going to get it done.

And that's very different than being at a big company where a lot of things are outsourced and [00:32:00] much more specialized. 

[00:32:03] Lisa Hufford: Great. All right, Sheila. 

[00:32:05] Sheila Pollock: Yeah, I, I would say definitely high agreement there. I would say, you know, what's similar is that the challenge is the same, right? Like you still have to do the hard work about what is the unique purpose and, uh, positioning for the brand.

What, um, you know, what is that sort of purpose driven point of view that's really authentic and that's going to break through and how do you, how do you tell the most emotionally arresting, really creative, really Story around that brand. And so whether you're huge or you're small, it doesn't really matter.

That challenge is the same and you've got to be just as strategic and smart and creative and bold, um, to, to do it. And so I think that that is very similar. Honestly, it doesn't really matter what the size of the company is. Um, and then to Sudhir's point, I think the, how just feels very different when you're in a very small startup environment.

Um, And it is, you have to roll up your sleeves, same thing. I was in Google [00:33:00] analytics every day. I mean, it's just a completely different experience. Um, but it's also fun, you know, there is something very scrappy and fun and entrepreneurial and you get in there. And I think when you have a smaller team and you've got smaller budgets and smaller resources, you also just get really creative and you get really scrappy and there is something really, and it's, and it is efficient in some ways because you only have so much to work with, um, So it's just a different feeling, um, but it's also exhausting.

So I will say, um, it is, it's just very different. I think you've got a, somebody once said, you've got to, you know, skin your knees on a startup and I was like, yep, I definitely did that. So it's, uh, they just feel very different and they're both awesome for different reasons. Um, but again, I'd say more is actually the same than is different.

[00:33:49] Lisa Hufford: That's great. Yeah. Pros and cons, right? But that's interesting. You both share that similarity, that, that there's more the same between big and small brands than different. That's, [00:34:00] that's awesome. All right, Jenny, I think we have time for one more. 

[00:34:02] Jennie Stark: Yeah, we have two great questions. So I don't know if we can maybe do speed round.

We can do speed dating with the questions and maybe get to the boat, get to both of them. One of them is how do you keep remote teams engaged and innovative, uh, especially when. They're remote, you're only meeting up on zoom. Do you have examples of some exercises, routines, etc. Sheila, 

[00:34:26] Lisa Hufford: let's start with you.

[00:34:27] Sheila Pollock: Yeah, um, I would say, I mean, we, we treat our meetings the same way that we would an in person meeting. So I think we don't shy away from things like creative ideation sessions or brainstorms or creative reviews or, you know, just kind of or strategic. Uh, out of the box thinking session, so I would say, um, you know, the difference is that we do do a little bit more homework, probably than if we were just all in the office together.

So I think we do a pretty good job of just being really clear about sort of some of the pre reads and some of the sort of assignments so that people [00:35:00] can come to the. The teams meetings or zoom meetings, just, um, fully ready to play and engage. Um, and then I think the other thing I think to be more mindful of when you're all on zoom or teams, it's just making sure that you're, you're kind of really reading the room, the virtual room about who's speaking up and who's not, because not everybody's comfortable doing that, especially when you, when you're all on screens, it is a learned scale in some ways.

So I would say, um, just like you would watch out in a physical room to make sure everybody's got a voice and just like what's the dearest said, everybody's got to be. Bold and speak up and share your thoughts and challenge things. And, um, so we talk a lot about that. Just, Hey, we've got a diverse point of view.

We want to hear from everybody. Um, that's, what's going to make us stronger. Feel free to challenge, build, ideate. Um, so I think just creating that energy. And again, I just try to, you know, bring that kind of feeling to the room as, as we do that. Right. 

[00:35:51] Lisa Hufford: So, yeah, 

[00:35:55] Sadira Furlow: for me, it's a, there's a, there are a few things that we do.

We usually start [00:36:00] meetings with like a, how, how are you doing? And people go around and it's just like that personal check in. So we really try not to just jump in to things, which is really easy to do. And so it's like, we have built in time in the beginning so that we can actually. See how we're doing as people and have that human connection moment.

I think we also schedule fun and inspiration and it feels like, oh, it should be spontaneous and more organic. And the reality is, is that if you don't schedule it, especially with remote teams, it's likely not going to happen. So be as intentional about scheduling fun and inspo as you are about talking about performance.

And then I'd say the last one is we also, um, employ walk in talks. And so again, getting out of teams, getting out of zoom, getting off a video and like getting outside to Sheila's point like getting outside and doing it together. That's something we can have as a shared experience is going for a walk and talk.

And some of the hardest conversations we've had have been [00:37:00] over walk and talks that just, again, it sort of releases everything, and you can connect with that person and have a much different conversation. 

[00:37:09] Lisa Hufford: Some great tips. All right, Jenny, one more. Okay. 

[00:37:12] Jennie Stark: Uh, Brian's question. How would you advise brands strive for purpose driven marketing and remain authentic to customers?

For example, do customers want a mayonnaise brand to save the world versus just simply making a great sandwich? 

[00:37:29] Lisa Hufford: So, so, so this is around purpose driven. Yeah. How do you really, yeah. 

[00:37:34] Jennie Stark: Advising brands strive for purpose driven marketing, remaining authentic. I think 

[00:37:43] Sadira Furlow: it starts with how you choose to define purpose for you and that brand.

I think we can misconstrue purpose to being something very altruistic and it has to save the society. And it, we like build it up to having to be that. And then we have [00:38:00] brands like a mayonnaise brand saying it's trying to save the world when it could be as simple as we want to bring joy to every lunch moment.

Yeah. It could be as simple or as big as it needs to be or as you choose it to be, but it really starts with like knowing your brand and knowing your consumers to better understand like how you're going to serve them and meet their needs and be relentlessly focused on doing that.

[00:38:27] Sheila Pollock: Yeah, just building on that. I would say, um, I think look inward first, you know, don't worry about the customer for a second. I would say what matters the most to to you as an organization because it has to be authentic and it's got to be real. Um, and so I think you've got to dig deep and actually. Why were you founded?

And what were some of the principles behind being founded? Or what what matters the most now to the executive team to the associates to the company again, the founders, um, things like that. I think that's where you have to start to just [00:39:00] see what is that genuine purpose. And to Sudhir's point, it doesn't have to be.

It can be all different things. Um, but it needs to be real and it needs to be authentic because it also needs to come from the inside out because if your associates don't Believe in it, or they're not passionate about it. I just don't think that's going to work. So, um, and it's never going to translate to the outside the right way.

So, I would say, start there. And then I think once you get really sharp on that, and you crystallize that, then you can get really bold and figure out how to scream it from the rooftops and invite your community in to really participate. 

[00:39:33] Lisa Hufford: That's great tips. Thank you so much, Jenny, for the questions. And we are going to wrap up with a new segment, which I'm so excited.

This is feedback from our community that says they'd love to hear leaders talk to each other and ask each other a question. So, so thank you, Sheila and Sadira for playing along with the 1st time, and you both have a question for each other. So I'll go ahead and turn it over. Sheila, why don't [00:40:00] you ask your question 1st to Sadira and then we'll.

Reverse. All right. I love it. This is a fun, 

[00:40:05] Sheila Pollock: fun new game. We're playing here. All right. So dear. Um, what, what advice would you give your 12 year old self 

[00:40:15] Sadira Furlow: 12 year old self? Got to go back into the recesses. Um, I think I tell my 12 year old self similar advice. I shared today. Look, be curious. I mean, I, I wish I would have 1 of the things I wish I would have known or been exposed to is like engineering or like that.

You can make video games or you could build things through a different language. I don't even think at 12 years old, I even knew that that was a possibility and had I been curious enough or ask more questions or been exposed to a bit more, who knows where that would have led me. I'm very happy with where I'm at, but I think that curiosity, whether you're older or younger, it's just something that can serve you for [00:41:00] a lifetime.

So my 12 year old self. Be curious, try everything, particularly. 

[00:41:10] Lisa Hufford: I love that. Love that. Okay, so you're at your, your turn. What's your question for Sheila? Yes. 

[00:41:18] Sadira Furlow: So, we know she likes to get outdoors. Speaking of outdoors. What's one habit and one hobby that has served you well in keeping your sanity in the chaos?

[00:41:34] Sheila Pollock: Oh, that's a good question. Uh, it's a daily practice. I would say, um, I would say hobby. I'm a water sports fanatic. So if I can get In the ocean, at least, you know, once a week, I am much happier person. Ask my husband. He will, um, it's yeah. So I try to either go surfing or kiteboarding or stand up paddling or something.

Um, so, so, yeah. [00:42:00] Something in the water or on the water is very important for me. And then the second one habit, um, I would say every couple of months I sit down and I do one of those crazy ideation circle exercises for myself. And so I literally remind myself of all the things that really, really fuel me and bring me joy.

Um, and so it's things like. Neruda love poetry and, um, you know, watching romance movies or, um, you know, getting on the water and just all the things that really deeply fulfill me that honestly have been with me since I was 12. And so I try to just make sure those are front and center for me, um, so that I don't lose track of, You know, it does get very hectic.

It is hard on a daily basis to keep track of that stuff. And so I do have to remind myself, like these are the things that are truly uniquely mine, um, dance is another one of them, um, that I have to make sure I keep front and center. 

[00:42:59] Sadira Furlow: [00:43:00] I love that. I'm gonna borrow that and I'm gonna do my best to make that into a new habit.

[00:43:06] Sheila Pollock: Oh, I love it. 

[00:43:06] Sadira Furlow: We should share romance. Yes. And then we'll share it. 

[00:43:08] Sheila Pollock: We'll share with each other. Okay. Perfect. 

[00:43:11] Lisa Hufford: I love that. Thank you both for sharing that, and that's such a great way for us to end, to think about for all of us. What are those things that inspire us? I love that idea, Sheila. The ideation. We kind of do have to take ourselves back sometimes to what are those, those, those activities that really fill us up individually as people so that we can keep going forward and giving so much of our energy and ourselves to our teams and our brands and our families and, and all, all of the responsibilities that we all have in life.

So, Thank you for sharing that reminder. I just want to close with a very hearty thank you to both of you, Sudheera and Sheila, for just sharing so much wisdom with us across so many different spectrums of your careers, sharing yourselves personally, [00:44:00] your way of thinking, your purpose driven. I know for me, I feel very inspired.

I'm sure that those that are listening also feel incredibly inspired. Thank you so much for being incredible role models for all of us out there in the working world. You truly are. Um, and, and it really shows through in everything you're doing in your authentic brand. So. Thank you for your time. We know you're very busy and, and all of your advice.

Thank you for having us. Thank you.