PepsiCo and Claire’s CMOs Steer Iconic Brands into the Future

It’s hard to keep iconic brands fresh. However, in this episode on Visionaries, Kristin Patrick, EVP and CMO at Claire’s, and Mark Kirkham, SVP and CMO of International Beverages at PepsiCo, share their secrets to success. With a shared passion for marketing efficiencies that keep brands fun and relevant for today’s consumers, they will leave you feeling inspired throughout the entire conversation. From creating platforms geared towards Gen Z and Gen Alpha to keeping their teams unified and aligned with a servant-leader mindset, here’s what they had to say on Visionaries and how it could impact you and your teams.

FOLLOW US!

• Find us on LinkedIn & Instagram

Transcript

Claire's and Pepsico Video

[00:00:00] Nadine Dietz: Hello, everyone. Welcome to Visionaries. I'm just going I'm very excited to introduce . Kristen Patrick, the EVP and CMO at Claire's and Mark Kirkham, who is the CMO PepsiCo International Beverages at PepsiCo sitting in Dublin right now.

And we're going to be talking about steering iconic brands into the future. But before I bring on my guests, I [00:01:00] just have a couple of notes. I want to thank our partner, the Wall Street Journal and our parent company 24 7 for supporting visionaries. For those of you who don't know 24 7 or marketers that matter. Marketers that matter is a community of marketers who come together to support 1 another like we are doing here today.

We love to share best practices and great tips to help one another grow. And 24 seven is a talent company who helps build out great teams with marketers and creatives, as well as supporting marketing teams with outsourced design services. So with that, I'd love to invite our guests, Kristen and Mark to join me here on zoom.

Okay, hi, Kristen. Hi, Mark. Hi. 

[00:01:37] Mark Kirkham: How are you? 

[00:01:38] Nadine Dietz: Good. Good. My traveling warriors. Mark, you're sitting in Dublin, Ireland, and Kristen, you're sitting in a hotel room in New York City. So really appreciate you taking the time to join us here. Thanks for having us. Absolutely. Well, this is going to be a fun episode.

Crazy long history with how we [00:02:00] all got here together on one zoom call. Uh, so we'll, I won't take everybody down that lane, but let's just say I'm happy the day is finally here where we're all together and you two have a really exciting background together. So I'm going to let you guys introduce. Each other, but before I do that, I also want to thank you both.

We are deep in the weeds right now of our marketing boards. And both of you have been such incredible contributors to the thought leadership that's being developed. So I just wanted to say, thank you. Kristen, we're still working on getting that 1 out because it's a, it's a big meaty 1, the remit of the CMO, but that's coming and Mark, we've already published the 1 from your group, which is strengthening team culture and morale.

So for those of you tuning in, we can drop that in the chat for you. So you can access that. It's great work from these incredible marketers and their boards. So thank you. All right. So let's jump in. Um, Kristen, tell us a little bit about Mark.

[00:02:57] Kristin Patrick: So, Mark Kirkham is a [00:03:00] 13 year veteran of PepsiCo. He started his career, , at P& G. So he's classically trained, but there's so much more to him, , than what meets the eye, he is, , a servant leader. He is, , profoundly, profoundly, , supportive of his family and his daughters and his dogs and his wife. And he's just, he's, he's a family guy.

, during my tenure at PepsiCo learned a lot from him, , and he, he's just 1 of those people that, , you can count on and he also is a brilliant businessman. And, , when I think about, you know, taking iconic brands into the future, he has no small task in, , shepherding what happens with with PepsiCo beverages.

And, , it's, it's hard to keep those brands fresh, right? They've been around for a long time. And I, I think he does a brilliant job, but really, , , I lovingly refer to Mark as Kirkham. So [00:04:00] you'll hear me probably use his last name, name. , and , I'm just really, really happy and honored to be on this today with both of you.

[00:04:07] Nadine Dietz: Thank you so much, 

[00:04:08] Mark Kirkham: Kristen. Mark. Wow. How are you gonna top that? Yeah, I don't know how I'm gonna follow that. , and I will refer to Kristen as KP because that's what many of us call her. But, , look, I think ditto is, is, you know, you meet people in your career that You know, we have tough jobs, and it's, you know, it's, , you learn a lot from each other.

But what really endures is friendship, respect, really, , a, the curiosity that some people bring about your industry, about consumers, about, about life and about family, and KP and Kristen has been one of those, , people who about 10 years ago, we were working together. Um, you know, she was coming from the outside.

I had been there 4 or 5 years and. Okay. We learned a lot about, you know, the, the business together. We learned a lot about each other, the brand, the system. , but I also learned [00:05:00] so much from someone who had such a different experience, you know, working at talent agencies and publishing. , obviously you've done so many things since and.

And also I as and also having met her daughter spent time at her house. Like we gave ourselves the opportunity to know each other's families, which, which I think in our world in what we do every day, I think it's important. , , and we have a love for the Red Sox, , which is, is also very important. So I'm, I'm just, I'm lucky.

We're lucky in our career to meet people that you learn from, that you respect , your, your friends with. And to have this opportunity to have a chat about what we're both super passionate, which is building iconic brands, , that's just icing on the cake. So, , I hope that comes even somewhat close to Kristen's amazing compliment.

So thank you. 

[00:05:44] Nadine Dietz: Absolutely. Sure did. And actually, I want to hear a little bit more about the iconic brands you have been working for. I know, Mark, you've been at Pesico now, I think, for 13 years. And I know you've worked in other great places before then. Um, we're going to come back to you in a second, but [00:06:00] Kristen, let's, let's talk about your journey because you've actually spent a lot of time at multiple iconic brands.

So tell us about your journey. 

[00:06:07] Kristin Patrick: Yeah. I, unlike Mark did not grow up classically trained. You know, I started my career at the Walt Disney company, um, after leaving law school. And so I. You know, I learned very early on how to build brands, but from a very unique perspective, right? So I learned about content product and experiences and that's how that's kind of my, um, foundation in terms of how I think about building brands.

Um, and I've. I've worked for some great companies, you know, from Calvin Klein to Revlon, Gap, Inc. Um, I spent time working for super agent Ari Emanuel. Um, I came to Pepsi after leaving Playboy, which is when, you know, Mark got ahold of me and, um, I had absolutely no idea what I was in for and running, you know, Pepsi marketing and beverages.

And I think together we, you know, we found our way. Um, and I think one of the [00:07:00] cool things and why I was so excited to do this with Mark is. Um, I, you know, as a leader, I was, I was very raw with him in terms of, um, you know, I think my weaknesses and, you know, where I needed guidance and, and we, we just helped each other along that journey.

[00:07:18] Nadine Dietz: Amazing. All right. We're going to come back. We're going to talk a lot more about what you're doing at Claire's now today, which is also pretty amazing. But Mark, not only have you been at Pepsi for 13 years, but, and you've had other great roles before. I want to hear all about that. But like at Pepsi, there's so many iconic brands.

Like, how do you think about that? And tell us a little bit about your journey and why you took on the role you have today. 

[00:07:39] Mark Kirkham: Yeah. I mean, I think it's important to learn from every one of those experiences. And while I've been at, you know, um, PepsiCo for 13 years, I feel like. Each step of the journey was like working for a new company, a new job, and I've also lived overseas the last 7.

5 years. So I've, I've learned so much about the world and the role our brands play and [00:08:00] it's different. Um, and I think, you know, to, to Kristen's point earlier, it's getting to understand the business. Is hard, you know, and and when you're handed, like, these amazing brands, you know, you have this in your mind.

Hey, this is what I'm going to do to make it special or what I'm going to do to leave my mark and and ultimately in a company like PepsiCo or any major CPG company in particular. It's not that easy. And more importantly, you really need to spend the time to understand the consumer to understand the dynamics.

But fundamentally, it's that passion for brand building and what it means to be Pepsi, to be Mountain Dew, to be Gatorade, to be Rockstar. Whatever the brand is, if you're not. Truly passionate about what that brand not just stands for, but what it really means to a consumer in Uganda to the United States to, you know, Latin America to China.

Um, you really have a hard time doing your job and the lucky thing about Kristen and I, and [00:09:00] many of my colleagues have done it. We've been able to travel the world and learn and I think the day I stopped learning is the day I stop existing in the sense of being a marketer. I mean, I think there's too often.

The, you know, in the traditional sense of, you know, you, you do these 3 or 4 things and that's what marketing is all about. But the world has changed so much in the last 10, 15 years and and you can take traditional brands and traditional retail and you can make it fresh and you can do different things and you can more importantly, convince franchisees and and operators and and consumers that Wow.

This brand is as amazing as it was 125 years ago, which obviously is the case for Pepsi as of yesterday. But I think that's the thing that keeps me going. I've been lucky enough and blessed to have so many great experiences and so many different brands at PepsiCo and P& G before and did a whole bunch of other stuff in earlier in my career.

I think it's that keeping learning and challenging myself at every step of the way and [00:10:00] taking those learnings into the next role because in many ways of PepsiCo, my job today is I'm doing a combination of all the jobs I've done over the last 10 years. Uh, and I love it. And it's really exciting. 

[00:10:11] Nadine Dietz: Awesome.

And I see a question in the chat from Michael. So Michael, perfect timing because we're, we, I think both Mark and Kristen already somewhat touched upon what makes brands iconic, but let's dive in much deeper now because we're going to talk about steering those iconic brands into the future. So, Mark, let's continue on with you for a moment.

We talked about iconic brands, you know, tell us a little bit about your perspective of. What makes it iconic, but also what is, how do you think about the role in culture and how, when you are pushing them forward, like how do you balance nostalgia with that constant evolution of the brand? 

[00:10:47] Mark Kirkham: Yeah, I think that's the, um, probably the hardest, but most important part is finding the balance of two things.

One. The history of what made the brand so special and what makes it relevant [00:11:00] today. So that balance of authenticity and relevance, um, I think that's the hardest thing for, uh, an older brand or a brand that's been a long time, because what you need to be able to do is make it super relevant to younger consumers or new consumers, you know, especially as categories evolve, um, at the same time, if you lose.

That essence of what makes that brand so special or has made it special, you risk so much. So, you know, Pepsi is a great example. Now, the nice thing about Pepsi is unlike other brands in our category. We, we love to change, you know, we, we like to redo our, our logo every, you know, 10 to 15 years. But, but that's who we are.

It's not, it's not an acknowledgement of that didn't work or this works better. It's acknowledgement of we truly appreciate what it takes to be timely. You know, we truly appreciate what it takes to be relevant. Um, and I think that also then goes all the way down to How we market the channels that we work with in the way we adapt to consumer needs the way we create content differently.

All of that has to [00:12:00] evolve in this idea of being truly authentic white stand for, but really relevant today's consumers and you can see that with how we've evolved our approach to music with Pepsi or how we've taken our association in sports with Gatorade and brought it really close to home through grassroots.

Those types of, of Yeah. Evolutions, but they're not revolutions are important. And then the last thing is when you're working in a global role like I am, how can you be globally scale, but locally relevant and really understanding the local nuances and the insights so that you don't just try to top down force your ideas or your, your messages on people and you find the right balance.

That to me is what makes an iconic brand today. 

[00:12:41] Nadine Dietz: Love it. Thank you for that. And we're gonna we're gonna dive in a little bit deeper in the concept around global brands and local scale because that's really important. But 1st, Kristen, let's hear from you. Claire's another iconic brand that you're driving such a transformation within.

Um, and just, just [00:13:00] really knocking it out of the park. Tell us a little bit about Claire's and what you're doing there and why you're doing it. 

[00:13:04] Kristin Patrick: Yeah. So Claire's is a 60 year old global brand. And I don't think people realize how old the brand actually is. You know, it's been around for quite a while and most people enter the brand during a rite of passage, which is a first piercing.

And so, you know, in some ways as a marketer, I'm lucky because there is that sense of, you know, specialness and nostalgia. So you. Come during a first piercing, you stay for first communions and proms and homecomings, and then you bring your kids back to get their ears pierced. And so I, um, you know, feel very lucky to sort of have that, uh, nostalgic part of the brand.

And, you know, when, when we thought about, um, Creating a new voice and vision for this next generation, which we lovingly refer to as the alpha. So we target the Z's, which, you know, you'll read different things about who the Z's are. Claire's classifies them as 13 to [00:14:00] 24 year olds and the alphas for us are 13 and unders.

So, um, the Zalfas, you know, when we dove into. What was important to them, you know, it really started from a place of empathy. And I think that that is what is incredibly important. And, um, the building of any brand, it's like, what is the humanity? What's the empathetic piece? Um, we took a lot of time listening to them and they told us, listen, we'd love Claire's like, we want more from you guys.

You know, you're, um. You've been a fleet of retail stores for 60 years, but we really want apparel to go along with the accessories. We would love you to decorate our dorms and bedrooms. You know, they told us that, um, they wanted cafes from us, which we were shocked by and kind of out there. Um, and, you know, they wanted.

Content and storytelling from us. So, you know, immediately I had a hunch that Claire's could play that, you know, a deeper role in consumers lives. Um, but, you know, we've [00:15:00] been on that journey and figuring out where they are from a technology perspective. We took the brand into the metaverse with a piece of intellectual property called Shimmerville.

It's a game on Roblox. Um, we rebooted our piercing business. And, you know, you'll start to see us go into new business categories, um, over the coming year. Um, so, so it really all starts with that consumer base though, and like what they're feeling.

[00:15:26] Nadine Dietz: You know, it's amazing because I think Mark, you mentioned the younger generation as well.

And really, you know, you're constantly marketing to new consumers, whether they're consumers, you haven't reached that already exists in the world or consumers that are coming into the world. And for you at Claire's Kristen, I mean, that's almost like a, a triple challenge because you're constantly educating new consumers.

What Claire's is. Yeah. How do you think about that? 

[00:15:52] Kristin Patrick: It's, you know, in some ways, the secret sauce of the company is being really good at tracking trends and sort of staying on the cutting [00:16:00] edge. And, you know, I always say that even from a technology perspective, I have to be a first mover. Like, I have to be bleeding edge because that's where the consumer goes.

So like, we had to be there the first day of threads, you know, we have to take risks. Like, I didn't know what was going to happen when we went into Thank Roblox and created a game. Um, thank God we didn't do it so much from a branded perspective. We created a piece of intellectual property. So, you know, I know a lot of brands have to pull off of Roblox.

Um, but, you know, I think it's, it's about being willing to take risks, calculated risks and, you know, I happen to have a board and CEO who, uh, is very, very supportive of this change in evolution. Um, Thank you. But I think it is about, you know, as the chief marketing officer of any iconic brand, it's it's knowing when to step in and try things, um, in a calculated way.

[00:16:56] Nadine Dietz: Amazing and Mark, let's come back to you because I don't [00:17:00] think. I quite, um. Asked you enough questions about the global nature of what you do, because if, if you really think about it, how many different countries you're in, how many different cultures you serve, how many different ways you have to stand up a brand that's either global or local.

Like, tell us a little bit about how you think about that, um, as you know, overseeing PepsiCo International. 

[00:17:24] Mark Kirkham: Yeah, I mean, I think it's, it's one of those, the, the most. Precious parts of what you do. And sometimes one of the most challenging parts of what you do, the precious part is you're, you have to ensure that certain aspects of your brands and your portfolio have to maintain that level of consistency.

And, and as you go around the world, it's not easy. Right? It's you. You have to find that global to local approach, which ultimately is what drives the business. What happens on the ground is what drives the business. And, and for me, especially at PepsiCo, a lot of our business is franchised and we have these amazing partners around [00:18:00] the world who also have their own brands and have their own businesses.

And you need to really find, you know, both through insight, through empathy, um, and through, um, I think there's a lot of persistence and focus. You have to understand their business. You have to understand their retail dynamics. You have to understand the difference in the consumers. I mean, you know, we have amazing businesses in the Middle East that are, you know, the vast majority of their popular of their population is is under 25, you know, the future of many of these countries isn't the people I grew up with.

It's the people more like my kids in terms of their stage of and the role that we can play as a brand and the role that our category plays. Thank you. It's it can be very different. So really, I think truly listening the consumer on. And I think this empathy is not just for the consumer. It's also for your teams.

Um, I think what's really important, and I'm really blessed and lucky to have an amazing diverse team of almost 30 different cultures just in our office here, [00:19:00] and this is an office of 70 to 73 people. So I've got half of the people from all different worlds. And what that helps us do is even as a group.

Understand the dynamics, the differences, understand what it takes to build brands, you know, from people who've been with the company for 2 years to people have been the company for 23 years. We really need to kind of learn from each other and have this flexibility to adapt. You know, we talk about flexibility within frameworks.

But ultimately, we're stewards for these amazing brands. These amazing brands have been built some for over 125 years. Brands like Gatorade, which while people think of it, it's a 60 year old brand in the U. S. In many parts of the world, it's only a few years old. So how do you build that brand? How do you adapt to category norms?

And ultimately, how do you immerse yourself? And I think when you work in an international or global role, you can't sit in one place and try to pretend you understand. You have to go into the markets. You have to spend time with the retailers. You have to spend time with the consumer. And [00:20:00] ultimately, you have to figure out what's that magic sauce that Kristen's talking about, of, you know, what's globally scalable and locally relevant.

Um, and it's also the part that makes me excited, makes me get up every day because You know, every day, it's a different challenge every day. It's a different dynamic. Um, and it keeps you on your toes. And frankly, I think it makes me a better marketer 

[00:20:20] Nadine Dietz: and we're going to come back and talk to you a little bit more about your leadership role, because leading teams globally is also very, very challenging.

Thankfully, you were part of the guide on how to strengthen team culture. We're going to talk about that in just a minute. But before we do that, Kristen, I want to come back to you on one more question regarding, um, Claire's and your target audience. And I think Mark, you have a lot of similar, um, circumstances where sometimes you're marketing, not to the actual buyer, but to the consumer.

And for you, Kristen, it's almost like extreme, right? You've got the moms and you've got the The consumers. So how do you, how do you balance your time on [00:21:00] who you're marketing to? 

[00:21:02] Kristin Patrick: We squarely target the Zs. This is, I have to tell you, this is one of the most complex brands, I think, that I've worked on because of exactly what you say Nadine.

It's like there's the moms and dads, there's the grandparents, there's um, the Zs and then the alphas, right? And, you know, we spent a lot of time Arguing with the board about, you know, are you taking the brand too old, Kristen? Like, because, because when, when you're, when you market to little girls and boys, like you have to be very careful.

Right. And so, um, we decided to age up the brands just a touch, which was a very big decision for a 60 year old brand. And if you look at the new marketing, you know, it's, it's, um, a culmination of A representative from that alpha group always, you know, 6 to 9 year olds and then I have to make sure that I've got like a 13 year old in the mix and then like a 17 year old in the mix.

But the [00:22:00] attitude is squarely, like, you know, a Gen Z and what we figured out through talking to alphas their, their moms and dads and Gen Z's. Little, little kids want to be big kids and there is a and Mark, you know, this with your daughter is like, they always want to be a little bit older than, you know, then, then what you are.

I think that stops at about the age of 40 though. Like, you just want to just want to pause. Um, but it's like, you're always like. Thirsting to be older than you are. So I think that like, that is kind of a magic thing to achieve. And so we're, we're trying to perfect that art of making it so that it's youthful enough, not to offend, you know, alphas and their parents.

Um, but that you hit that sweet spot of just cool enough to attract to the alphas, um, not alienate the Zs and, and, you know, making them, the Zs want to be part of this. Brand and culture. And, um, [00:23:00] to me, that is like what, you know, great marketing is about trying to figure out that mix. It's amazing 

[00:23:06] Nadine Dietz: that I 

[00:23:07] Mark Kirkham: think there's just another piece of that is how do you make traditional platforms or traditional ways people engaged, whether it be the retail store, or whether it be a fashion trend that might be old or new.

I mean, look what we've had to do we okay Pepsi is known for music and football, but. We've been able to bring baby back in a different way and celebrate him to a new audience. You know, the number of kids who are celebrating nostalgia today, you know, the alphas who care about, you know, the 1980s. It's ridiculous, right?

You look at how we've evolved our logo. It's, it's a nod to the past and, and a vision for the future. You know, it's, you look at how we've evolved our, our gaming strategy, which is. Look, people love football. They love to watch football. Pepsi has a long heritage of football. Well, the work we're doing with EAFC is a great example of bringing it very local, integrating music, taking talent to whole different [00:24:00] literally virtual worlds and, and telling a brand narrative that, that frankly, um, If you told me I was going to be doing that 10 years ago, I'd say, well, that's off strategy because that doesn't feel the way Pepsi's always done it or the way Gatorade's always done it.

And today, if we don't do that, it's not only off strategy. It's, it's, it's not relevant for those consumers. So by focusing in, like, in the middle where you've got the mix of the young at heart and, and also that heritage that allows you to kind of then also reach the younger consumers. And I think, I think Kristen, you said it right that, that, that kind of.

Thank you. Aging up makes you even more attractive to the younger consumers. Yeah, 

[00:24:39] Kristin Patrick: it's a funny phenomenon. I have to say, right? 

[00:24:42] Nadine Dietz: And so insightful. Thank you for sharing that. That's great. Unfortunately, we have like, 3 minutes left and I knew this was going to happen. I have 1 more question for each of you, but.

For everybody tuning in, this is the last chance to get another question. And Michael, I hope we answered your question. Well, um, let us know. Um, but let's talk about leadership [00:25:00] for a moment because navigating and bringing teams through these recent times and trying to stay on top of everything is a lot of.

Work for leaders to know how to really lean in and support their teams. So Mark, tell us a little bit about some of the factors that are important for fostering an internal culture that is really all around creativity and inclusivity. 

[00:25:24] Mark Kirkham: Um, I think Kristen said it about me and I, I, I take it with pride, but I think it's everyone needs to learn from is, is this servant leadership my mentality.

Which also ties right into authentic leadership. And I know it's an overused term and, you know, people can write books about it, but, but actually, it's about being connected to those you work with, you know, the, the best way to understand someone that's on your team or in your extended team. It's understand their day to day, understand the dynamics they face, be able to relate to it, but also be able to reframe it so that they can also see where you're coming from.

And, and you can't do that if you're just a [00:26:00] top down, you know, mandate based leader, you have to get your hands dirty. You have to be willing and accepting and, and celebrate failures when you need to, you have to be transparent. Sometimes you gotta be direct. But more importantly, you just need to care. Um, and sometimes we get too busy.

We've got to step back and be like. Wow. We're so lucky to work with these people. And yeah, you're going to have good days and bad days, but you got to care. And that, that level of, you know, authentic servant, you know, kind of mindset to work together, I think is really important. 

[00:26:33] Nadine Dietz: Amazing. Thank you for all those tips.

And for those of you that are tuning in, I'm going to drop the link to a guide that has a lot of great tips in it for you. Um, Michael, good luck with Cinnabon. That's awesome. And Kristen, we're gonna close out with you. Um, okay. So you and I have known each other for a long time. We've done a lot together and I've always been so, uh, incredibly impressed with how much you really lean in, not just female supporting females, but really as a [00:27:00] female leader, supporting everyone.

And you've taken on a lot of different mentees, um, and you've always been there for everyone. So What, what is driving you? What is the passion? And, and what, how can all of us help inspire the next generation of leaders? 

[00:27:16] Kristin Patrick: , I've been lucky in my career to have. Great family, , support and just, I think, great mentors along the way.

And, growing up, I, girls can be really mean to each other, Nadine. And so, you know, I kind of experienced some of that in high school and I promised myself that I would. You know, sort of carve a path for women where I could, um, I think that we have to support each other. Um, as women leaders, I think that's incredibly important.

And, you know, I guess I just come from a place of, like, looking at my past and appreciating family. Um, people who've supported me in business and also maybe that hurt that I felt a little bit in high school in terms of, [00:28:00] you know, making, making, um, or becoming a supporter of women. So I think that that's, that's what drives me and I, I hope that other female leaders kind of pay it forward to, you know, I think that's incredibly important.

Um, so that's what drives me. 

[00:28:15] Nadine Dietz: Thank you for that. I couldn't agree with you more and hate to say it. We see a lot of that still women treating women badly. We got to stop that stuff people. That's crazy. Uh, so, all right. Well, to all of those who tuned in today, thank you so much for joining us and Mark and Kristen, thank you so much for being with us here live on Visionaries.

We appreciate you. 

[00:28:36] Kristin Patrick: Thank you. I'll take our show on the road sometime. Okay. Let's do that. 

[00:28:40] Mark Kirkham: Let's do that. 

[00:29:00]