How Kellogg and Anthropologie Execs Use EQ to Drive Growth

You’ve probably heard it before–leave emotions out of the board room. But what if leaders with high emotional quotient (EQ) are exactly what our businesses need in order to grow and connect with colleagues and consumers? In this episode of Visionaries, we brought together Elizabeth Preis, CMO at Anthropologie and Charisse Hughes, SVP, Chief Growth Officer at Kellogg to discuss how they are using EQ to make business decisions, including how they think about AI and lead their teams through change. Former colleagues at Estée Lauder and now friends, Charisse and Elizabeth take us on a journey that will leave you enchanted, inspired, and empowered to lead with your head and heart.

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Transcript

Kelloggs and Anthro Visionaries

[00:00:00] Nadine Dietz: Hello, everyone welcome to visionaries. 

I'm very, very excited about our guests today, which is Charisse Hughes, who is the SVP and chief growth officer at Kellogg company and Elizabeth Preis, who is the CMO at Anthropology. We're going to be talking today about the E. Q. that drives meaningful relationships [00:01:00] and growth. And there's a lot to unpack there. And I'm going to have both ladies join me here in just a moment, but we're 1st, going to cover just a couple of things I just wanted to thank our partner, the wall street journal and our parent company 24, seven for supporting visionaries. For those of you who don't know 24, seven or marketers that matter.

We are a community helping other marketers support one another, sharing best practices and great tips like we're going to do here today. And 24 seven is a talent company who helps build out great teams with marketers and creatives. So with that, I'd like to bring on Sharice and Elizabeth. Please, um, join me today.

All right. There she is. Hi, Sharice. Hi, Elizabeth. 

[00:01:46] Charisse Hughes: Hello. 

[00:01:48] Elizabeth Preis: Hello. Hello, Sharice. 

[00:01:51] Nadine Dietz: So good to have you two here. And, um, fun fact, uh, you two actually know each other from a past journey where you worked [00:02:00] together at Estée Lauder before your new roles. So I thought, why not introduce each other? So Sharice, let's start with you.

Tell us a bit about Elizabeth. 

[00:02:09] Charisse Hughes: Oh, I would love to, um, imagine a marketer who has not only excelled at leading global brands, but it's also made an indelible mark within the world of luxury and accessible retail. That is Elizabeth price. She is a true executive. Um, she's transformed companies from premium luxury to digitally native beauty brands.

Um, Elizabeth has also held key positions in renowned companies. that has set the standards for their industry. Her current role is as the C suite executive at Anthropologie, where she's driving growth. She's also worked, um, in private equity backed, uh, cosmetics, and she's consistently demonstrating her ability to drive and achieve unprecedented success.

I [00:03:00] have the great, uh, pleasure of having worked with Elizabeth as a counterpart at Estee Lauder companies where I was on the global side and Elizabeth was in North America. And Elizabeth always brought a real commercial mind to every discussion that we had. She's encouraging, supporting, and always pushing to get the best.

for her market. Um, I really came to count on Elizabeth's professionalism, her leadership and her partnership, and I'm just thrilled to see her today. So, um, welcome and hello, Elizabeth. Once again. 

[00:03:35] Elizabeth Preis: Hello, Sharice. Am I blushing over here? But thank you for that. Very, very nice warm welcome. Um, okay, so now it's my turn.

I get to, uh, introduce Sharice. In 2010, I joined Estee Lauder Companies. And I had the great pleasure of getting to work with Sharice, who led marketing for the Estee Lauder brand. Sharice has had an incredible, impressive career as a marketing leader across a range of categories, range of [00:04:00] markets, and including personal care, beauty, jewelry, and accessories, and now consumer food as the chief growth officer and SVP at Kellogg, the Kellogg company.

Uh, personally, I find Sharice ever intelligent, her ever intelligent approach to product launches and brand campaigns, the strategic thought that goes into everything she does. Um, and then not only that strategic thought, but then how does she power that with incredible delivery and enthusiasm and excitement that not only got her own marketing teams jazzed, but actually got the entire brands jazzed across the whole world.

So that is something that will always be a great memory of mine, of Sharice's. All right. Now, on a personal level, not to mention her warmth, her kindness, truly, I mean, somebody who is a plus on all levels. Um, and then let's not forget, um, that, that million watt smile that just can literally light up a room, um, and that can inspire all the teams that get the, [00:05:00] Great, great pleasure to work with you.

So I'm excited to see you again. 

[00:05:04] Charisse Hughes: I am excited as well. This is such a treat. 

[00:05:08] Nadine Dietz: Amazing. Um, thank you both for doing such an awesome job introducing each other. I no longer need to have this job, I guess, which is awesome. So you did a way better than I ever could. Uh, but I'm just delighted that you two lovely ladies can join me here today.

And, um, perfect setup for the topic we're going to be covering, which is the EQ. That drives meaningful relationships and growth. Uh, so since you both did such a great job covering your backgrounds, I would like to understand a little bit more about why you took on the role you did today. So Sherry, let's talk about your current role.

What are you up to and why did you take that on? 

[00:05:44] Charisse Hughes: Yeah. I mean, I think. Let me just start with a little bit of background. I am a native Chicago, and I always like to start with that because it's a true foundation of who I am. I'm also an only child and, uh, of a single parent. [00:06:00] My mom was an educator for 33 years.

She then went on professionally to have a second act as the Illinois State Commerce Commissioner, where she did that for eight years. And she kind of helped instill this value of education, of lifelong learning, and always being able to kind of reinvent yourself based upon your values. Uh, I, uh, from a, from a school standpoint, I went to Howard University, got my MBA, um, at Northwestern.

And then as Elizabeth said, I had, you know, professional roles across a variety of industries. And, um, and I would say that. The reason or the, um, impetus for me being in the seat that I'm in today has a lot to do with my values and, um, values playing a more important and an increasing role as I got older.

Uh, so 2020 was sort of a pivotal moment for me where I had a big birthday. Obviously, cobit. Um, I was, um, reflecting on what we were [00:07:00] seeing in the E. D. And I space and the challenges of, um, the murder of George Floyd and all of those dynamics play out before our eyes. And, um, it was a major sort of existential moment for me where I needed to be doing something, um, that was going to contribute to my myself, my community, um, and leave a bit more of, um, an impact on the world.

Frankly, right. Yeah. Uh, and so I started to, um, take calls around, uh, opportunities and Kellogg was one of the calls that I took. And frankly, if you, if you look at the Kellogg company, it's 117 years old. It's always been anchored in values and purpose. And this desire to create better days, uh, in a place of the table for everyone, and that really spoke to me, um, and, uh, my value system and what impact I wanted to make, um, and add to that, they have a portfolio, uh, we have a portfolio of brands and cool characters, um, that [00:08:00] I, I would get a chance to have an impact on as well.

So all of that is, is sort of how I ended up in the seat that I'm in. It's been three years and a really amazing experience thus far. Amazing. And 

[00:08:13] Nadine Dietz: for those who are joining late, just a friendly reminder, Charisse is the Chief Growth Officer of the Kellogg Company and Elizabeth, CMO of Anthropology. Tell us a little bit about that journey and why you decided to take 

[00:08:25] Elizabeth Preis: that on.

Yeah. Um, so for me, it was a little bit different. I was as, uh, as Sharice said, I was working in a private equity backed beauty company based in L. A. And I really wanted to come back east. Um, I, I also got a call, um, started taking calls back on the east coast. And one of them was from anthropology. Um, and I'll never forget.

It was a brand that I knew of. I mean, it's been around for 30 years. It's a brand that, um, that people definitely admire. Um, but frankly, it wasn't a brand that I was currently shopping at very often. Um, but I did love it. The way that anthropology made me feel when I went into a store. Um, it was [00:09:00] always this moment of discovery.

The creativity was, was Was exceptional. The store windows made, uh, made you happy. And what is an oftentimes a little known fact, a lot of those efforts are actually used and reused materials that are sort of recycled. So they had, they were already sort of reusing and and building into a more sustainable, um, sustainable effort.

So when they called me and they said they were was

I thought I could make a difference. I really thought I could make a difference because what, what I could offer was Was different from what they excelled in. They excelled in the creativity. They excelled in the visuals. They excelled in the store experience. But in terms of strategic marketing, that was especially when that was digitally focused.

That was an area of opportunity where there was there was the opportunity to actually, um, you know, bring them further along in that path. So that was what is what was exciting. Um, being able to make a difference, make a difference, [00:10:00] um, that was leveraging the wonderful. Beauty of the brand, um, and then bringing it to more people.

What was, what was shocking to me, quite frankly, is when I finally got around to updating my LinkedIn and saying I was the chief marketing officer for anthropology, I was absolutely positively floored. Of how many people, those people I knew and those people I didn't know were randomly writing to me that this was their favorite brand of all time.

And as a marketer, there's probably nothing more exciting than actually working for a brand that already had so much brand love built into its DNA. So that was just something else that I wanted to tap into further. Um, and so since then I've been there for, you know, three and a half years. Um, it's definitely been a journey.

Uh, it's it's was a very crazy time, as Charisse mentioned. I mean, certainly something I wouldn't have predicted in December 19, um, of how February was going to play out. And then May and June was going to play out and and several, uh, truly monumental moments in everyone's lives in 2020. Um, but I will say that, um.

That all those, uh, [00:11:00] efforts, all those things that happened, all those moments, uh, actually brought us together as a tighter and more orchestrated community, uh, both internally within our own, uh, leadership team, and then also more thoughtful and more, uh, more succinct in who, who we wanted our community to be outside of anthropology.

[00:11:17] Nadine Dietz: Amazing. And, um, again, such a, such a great segue into the topic itself, which is the importance of EQ, uh, when it comes to driving those truly meaningful relationships. And you talked about brand love. It's brand love, both on the outside and the inside. And we're going to talk about both. Like, how do you establish that with customers, consumers, shoppers, and also within your own teams?

But let's start with the outside. Um, Elizabeth, what are some of the ways that you think about establishing that emotional connection further with your customers beyond the product itself, as you mentioned 

[00:11:50] Elizabeth Preis: just the other day? Yeah, I mean, I think that ultimately people want to feel part of a community at some level.

Um, and community is actually one of our brand values along [00:12:00] with curiosity and creativity and, and purpose driven and growth mindset. So it's one of our core values. Um, and the community takes. It takes on, um, takes on a feeling internally of how do we make sure that we are celebrating internal members of our community, both internally as well as externally.

So take for example, um, in March, uh, it was International Women's Month. And we had this idea, um, of actually celebrating Internally, a lot of members of our community who are women across multiple different levels, multiple different backgrounds, multiple different functions. And we actually did a daily LinkedIn post that celebrated our own internal community.

And I was never expecting the results that we got in terms of people. That we're so excited internally about seeing their colleagues being celebrated. And then also I was floored by how many external people were literally tuning in every day to see who the next person was going to be featured. So I think that that level of community building, um, goes a long way, making people feel that they're part of a whole.

[00:13:00] Uh, that they're an important part of a, of a greater mission, um, a mission that has, um, that has a purpose instilled in it. Um, and it's ultimately all about making a customer feel more connected with us. Um, and it doesn't have to come with a purchase. Like, we want people to feel connected with us just by walking through our doors or visiting our site or we're scrolling on our Instagram that we want them to feel that there's a connection there.

Um, and they can feel, uh, they can feel. They can feel happy that they spend that time with us. I love that. And 

[00:13:28] Nadine Dietz: you know, it's interesting because when you and I were chatting a couple of weeks ago, Elizabeth had a little bit of a, of a light bulb moment with you, because I hadn't really thought of brands and products in the way that you were describing the connectivity.

And you were talking about being in the beauty industry before, and, you know, consumers use the products, but they don't walk around like carrying an iPhone or. You know, it's hard. And then I think about you, Charisse. I think you're like frosted flakes. They're not walking around carrying a box of frosted flakes.

Like, how do you think about emotional 

connectivity? 

[00:13:59] Charisse Hughes: [00:14:00] Yeah, I mean, I think the funny, um, or interesting thing about being at a legacy company like this one is like, you have generational love and nostalgia for these brands, frankly. And so actually people are carrying them. in their hearts and minds. Um, a lot more than you think.

What we have really got to do because the awareness is not our issue. It's now about consideration as consumers have shifted, um, their, you know, desires around food and, um, you know, how they engage with us. But at the end of the day, a brand is a promise. It is anchored in trust and consistency. So, uh, what does that mean?

That means that we are really investing in those kind of experiences as Elizabeth talked about. Um, You know, how we're going to, you know, understand their lifestyle, their preferences, their aspirations. And, you know, one of the ways we do it is through data and just getting this really deep understanding of our consumers.

But we're also doing it through cultural [00:15:00] relevance. Um, so. Being culturally relevant for us is about understanding, you know, diverse, um, dessert, diverse consumer cohorts. It's about leaning into ways to delight that consumer through, you know, music festivals, which is something we recently did with Pringles or through really cool collaborations that keep us top of mind with the consumer.

We recently did something with Tony the Tiger and Puma, um, or with Gooder and Fruit Loops. And these are ways that we are collaborating together. Um, becoming a part of consumers lives and those experiences start to build affinity, um, keep us top of mind and help us, um, you know, remain at the forefront as they're about to make purchase decisions or are simply engaging.

Um, we're also really focused on, as I mentioned in the beginning and in my opening around purpose. Um, so we as a company have, um, for, you know, as long as we've been around, really been focused on ED and [00:16:00] I, um, and ESG, uh, and we know the importance of that for younger generations and how they're likely to switch or even become more loyal to those brands that they know are, um, you know, kind of more sustainable or, uh, attracting a more diverse.

Group or advocating. Um, so we've, we've made that a priority as well, uh, across, across our brands. And those are kind of the ways that we, we think about building that connection and that emotional, uh, quotient, if you will. 

[00:16:31] Nadine Dietz: Excellent. And it's amazing as you were talking trees, a question came in from Maria.

About just that, right, which is, you know, how do you establish emotional connection with those who, who don't have that nostalgia built in and getting to those new generation? So Maria good. Good call. I think we just covered that. So we're going to if anybody else has some more questions, keep keep pulling them in there.

We're going to try to address them along the way. Um, okay, great. So you talked about data, Sharice. Um, [00:17:00] and Elizabeth, I know you were talking about really that opportunity of bringing more of a digital focus in. You can't talk about data and digital without talking about AI, right? And especially, uh, this year.

Uh, if not many years prior, people preparing for leveraging AI. How do you think about AI when it comes to EQ? Those two things don't immediately jump out as BFFs, but there is a role for AI to help you get to deeper insight, right? Lisbeth, how are you thinking about that with you, your organization? 

[00:17:30] Elizabeth Preis: Well, I think, um, what, what Charisse said earlier definitely resonates with us as well.

I mean, as a, as a company, we are, we are proudly creativity led. Like we think of ourselves as creativity led, um, we're data informed. Um, and, and a lot of times you hear companies that are data led like we're actually not that we are creativity led proudly. So data informed and consumer inspired. And, and that is that trifecta, if you will.

So, based on that, the way we think of AI is it is it is a smart enabler, like it's an [00:18:00] enabler. It's a supplement. To our existing teams and our existing creative teams, you know, in, like, real life approaches, um, our teams and the editorial space will be leveraging a I to make our product copy better on site to make that be more SEO friendly to make that be more, um, more, more digitally robust.

So we can acquire new customers. Um, but 1 example. I mean, there's the, I think the most important part is it's not a replacement. To our to our people in our teams. It's a supplement. And I think that when you give everyone the the permission to use a I and to leverage a I as a way to make their own creativity come alive much more succinctly and much more, uh, much more smartly with both the existing audience.

We have as well as a new audience. Then it then it opens us up to, uh, to real growth. And that's what is the exciting thing. 

[00:18:51] Nadine Dietz: Absolutely. And should we set up for you? I mean, 

[00:18:54] Charisse Hughes: very, very, uh, similar to the points that Elizabeth raised. Um, it was funny. I was, [00:19:00] um, doing another, uh, discussion with members of my team.

And I was sort of looking at, like, what has been the increase in AI conversation in company earnings calls and it's up. 77% like more than 1000 mentions on a I. So we're all trying to figure this space out in a way that's going to be relevant. Without a doubt, we are, you know, we're looking at media optimization through the funnel.

We are building our high value audiences. Um, the interesting thing for the Kellogg company is we've we've long had, uh, You know, first party data. Um, quite significant. Uh, number of households. So we have like 47 million households. Um, and we've been able to enrich that that data to get to covering something like 40% of the population within the U.

S. Which is pretty significant. But at the end of the day, as Elizabeth said, it's really about it's not about the data. It's really about the questions that we're [00:20:00] asking to really understand our business better. So who are our light buyers, our medium buyers, our heavy buyers? What are those held high value audiences?

And how do we want to engage them? Where are they falling off within our funnel? And those are the questions that we're asking. To uncover more audience opportunity and more engagement. And then we go on to, you know, crafting those customized, uh, content messages that are, you know, kind of playing out in these targeted ways across the different platforms.

Um, and we also have, uh, the unique, uh, challenge and opportunity of retail media, which means that really connecting the dots, um, is a bit harder for us. Um, then it might be for Elizabeth, who has that sort of closed loop environment. So, so, you know, it really is, um, a fact finding mission and being very, very intentional about, um, what we're seeking, what we want to understand, um, and then sort of letting, uh, [00:21:00] kind of proving and disproving our hypotheses and then, um, testing and validating creative and execution, um, to, to get closer and sharper, uh, with our messaging and with those, with those.

[00:21:11] Nadine Dietz: Thank you. Amazing. Um, but I can't believe how fast the time is flying. We only have like five minutes left. I just realized that. Okay. I have more questions. Okay. Let's see. Um, well, let's talk about transformation because the AI, like anything else is a journey and transformation is part of everyone's role, no matter what point in time it is.

But there's been. A lot of what we call big digital transformation over the past decade and when I first met you, you were in the midst of that at Kellogg's. So can you tell us a little bit about how you think about digital transformation and how you lead your teams through that change? 

[00:21:48] Elizabeth Preis: Sure. 

[00:21:49] Charisse Hughes: So, um, when we spoke, I had just joined the company and I came as much as, you know, the opportunity to join the company.

It was all [00:22:00] about brands and where I was in my life. There was also a significant, uh, Um, gap in terms of where the company was in its digital transformation journey, and I had the advantage of having been at Pandora. I was able to lead that, um, transformation journey. And so that was also a nice fit for my background.

Um, and so we've. We've, um, been focused on sort of foundational elements. So starting with, like, brand building fundamentals and digital IQ and, um, getting to kind of omni channel excellence. So really thinking about, like, the fundamentals of a commercial model. That we need to, um, maximize. And then this next step of the transformation journey is all about how you unleash a full funnel marketing.

So thinking holistically across, um, our our funnel, uh, to maximize our connection with the consumer. You've got to imagine [00:23:00] that when you're in the C. P. G. Space. There is a heavy focus on brand building. So real top of the funnel and you know, not as much attention or any sort of real thinking about the bottom of the funnel.

So bringing those two worlds together has been a real change, uh, change management process just to get the teams to think more holistically about the consumer and the consumer journey. Um, and so we're still we're still on that path. Um, having some of that data on the back end with our retailers does help.

Um, and really connecting the dots across with technology, but also a big, big upscaling moment for the team because, you know, the ways that we, um, equipped and trained marketers in the past, um, is very different than the ways that we need to kind of set them up for success for the future. Um, and so that's, that's been a bit of our journey beyond kind of the technology, um, and the data and the like.[00:24:00] 

[00:24:00] Nadine Dietz: Love that. That was a super helpful. Thank you for that. And, uh, I see a question in here from Angie. I'm, I'm, I'm afraid if we're not going to have, uh, enough time to answer this question properly, I'm going to read it out loud and I promise maybe Elizabeth, you'll behoove us and provide that answer afterwards for your, in your article, but it's around the customer experience, especially if store driven, how do you make it feel personalized, but consistent with the brand?

That's a big question. Mm-hmm. . So if you wanna cover that a little bit, great. But I'd love to hear it along the same lines as SRIs, how you think about taking your teams through this journey as well. And maybe it does lead right into answering 

[00:24:37] Elizabeth Preis: this question. Yeah, I mean, I think what, what SRIs was mentioning was spot on to sort of where we were also at anthropology.

I think one of the things we did, um, in June of 21, um, was, was really one of the first times we could all be together. And in many cases, a lot of us hadn't even met each other. Like if you had joined sort of in that 2020 timeframe, you maybe not have [00:25:00] even met face to face, um, physically your, your own colleagues.

So we took the leadership team together and it was at that leadership session that we defined what our core values were as a team. We defined what our, um, what, who the customer we thought we had. Um, and we thought we also talked about who the customer wanted, what was going to be a creative to our, to our mix in terms of, uh, in terms of our current base of customers, and that was going to offer us growth as a, as a brand, um, that was sort of like principle number one, and it was eye opening because people had been there for a very long time.

They might have had one perception about who our customer was. Somebody who had been there and joined much later might have had a different perception. So that was, that was step number one. But I think the main thing that came out of that was, um, yeah. Something that I believe very strongly is the first and foremost fundamental, which is you need to establish trust amongst your leadership team.

The leadership team needs to know that they can be trusting and trusted as an expert in their field, because that then allows everyone laterally. [00:26:00] To, to not try to be juggling all the balls. Like I can trust my merchants. I can trust my finance team. They can trust me for marketing. So that was first and foremost.

The second thing is, is as an organization, I think the biggest, um, the biggest, um, misnomer, if you will, is that digital marketing or digital lives lives in the digital team. That's not true. Digital marketing for it to really be effective as a growth driver for an organization lives across everybody, and everyone needs to have a level of proficiency, if not expertise in the basics of what digital, um, digital driven marketing is.

So we as an organization decided that we were going to be a digitally first digitally led organization in terms of how we connect with our customers. And that was a big shift, and exactly as Sheree said, there was a lot of learning. Like, I mean, I, I give major, major kudos to my team that literally had sessions where we were bringing the rest of the organization through some basic principles and fundamentals, but without that common language and that common [00:27:00] understanding about what, um, how digital can transform your business and connect with new customers.

The, the understanding of how we use that as a, not as a marketing lever, but as a growth lever for a brand was never going to come to fruition. So I would say that was. Probably one of the biggest, um, inflection points, uh, for us as a brand. Amazing. 

[00:27:20] Nadine Dietz: Thank you for that. Um, okay. Wow. I cannot believe we are out of time already.

Um, I, I can't let you guys go though without 1 last really fast question. And it's just off the top of your head. If you could cite a piece of career advice for anybody tuning in. What's the. Thing that comes top of mind. Charisse, let's start 

[00:27:39] Charisse Hughes: with you. Um, the thing that comes top of mine in terms of career advice, two things.

One is the importance of your network, um, and to continue to be curating that network across your career. So my network tends to be people like Elizabeth or former bosses who know me can [00:28:00] provide amazing, um, uh, advice, um, and, uh, you know, career. Whether it be career or capability building or areas of expertise that you need to, you need to show up on.

So I, I would highly recommend that. And then the last piece is just commit to lifelong learning because that you have to be an adaptive leader that is growing and, and developing and, and, um, and sharing that with your teams as well. Sorry, I got I got a little I got going on that one. No, 

[00:28:31] Nadine Dietz: that's okay. I accept.

I didn't mean to surprise you with the question, but I had to ask given all the goodness. You've already shared and Elizabeth. How about for you?

[00:28:39] Elizabeth Preis: I would say 2 things. 1 is, um, there are a lot of things you can't control day to day. Uh, but the thing you can control is how you show up. You know, how do you show up?

Do you show up prepared? Do you show up knowledgeable? Do you show up well read? Do you show up? Um, do you show do you show up in a calm, a calm manner that that exudes confidence and exudes, um, that exudes [00:29:00] inspiration for the rest of the team. And the second thing I would say is, and it's very much in line with that is how do you communicate?

Communication, I think, is the number one most important skill, um, that people can actually learn and, and work on, and, and it really makes a big difference. So your oral communication, your written communication, your presentation skills, um, what do you want people to know at the end of a presentation? What do you want them to feel?

Um, what do you want them to remember? And those three things for me are probably the most important because few ideas that have greater impact and greater stickiness will be what you're known for. Amazing. Thank you. 

[00:29:35] Nadine Dietz: Yeah. Thank you both. Great, great advice. Um, okay, super. Uh, I want to say thank you to everybody here who tuned in.

Thank you for your questions. Thank you for your comments. Uh, thank you both Sharice and Elizabeth for joining us. It was a delight to have you on the show. Appreciate it. 

[00:29:51] Elizabeth Preis: Thank you. Thank you so much. Sharice, I love seeing you. Absolutely. 

[00:29:56] Nadine Dietz: Excellent. For those of you tuning in next week, we'll see you then.

In the [00:30:00] meantime, everyone have a wonderful week. Thank 

[00:30:01] Elizabeth Preis: you. You 

[00:30:02] Charisse Hughes: too. Thank you. Bye.